The central myth of platos phaedrus semantic scholar. The file is downloadable at the pdf link in the download options section of this page. Nov 14, 2002 phaedrus is widely recognized as one of platos most profound and beautiful works. The same recollection of his master may have been present to the mind of plato when depicting the sufferings of the just in the republic. We also spent some time on a subsection of this speech stephanus 246e247e, the 4th kind of love, divine madness, as a meditation, in our parmenides morning study group on sept 26, 2018, since it appeared that book 1, chapter 21 of proclus theology of plato among other places in that work referred to this section of the phaedrus. It is preserved in the works of plato and xenophon. Thus the first half of the dialogue it self falls into two parts. This ambitious thesis makes werner s work much more than a study of the myths contained in the phaedrus or even than a complete commentary on the phaedrus. Socrates in platos dialogue the phaedrus, however, is itself not unlike the ideal sought by the sophists in general, isocrates in particular. The works in this group to be discussed in alphabetical order below represent platos reception of the legacy of the historical socrates. In the phaedrus, socrates makes the rather bold claim that some of life s greatest blessings flow from madness. Socrates discussion with phaedrus isnt a debate, but a conversation between two friends while out for a walk, albeit at a much higher level than any conversation ive ever had. The phaedrus would in fact be an essentially metaphilosophic dialogue.
The early dialogues serve well as an introduction to the corpus. I am amused, socrates, at your making a distinction between one who is a relation and one who is not a relation. The two dialogues together contain the whole philosophy of plato on the nature of love, which in the republic and in the later writings of plato is only introduced playfully or as a figure of speech. Homosexuality is used to describe the relationship between the lover and beloved. Phaedrus is a dialogue written by plato around 370 bc. This ambitious thesis makes werners work much more than a study of the myths contained in the phaedrus or even than a complete commentary on the phaedrus. Phaidros, written by plato, is a dialogue between platos protagonist, socrates, and phaedrus, an interlocutor in several dialogues. It details a conversation between two characters, phaedrus and socrates. Eros in platos phaedrus and the shape of greek rhetoric. I do know that socrates talks about love here and he specifically addresses the question of how one should treat a young boy that one. Of the dialogues, the symposium is the most delightful and accessible, requiring no special knowledge of ancient greek philosophy or customs. Moore the phaedrus, to pilfer a phrase socrates himself uses in the same dialogue, is a beast more complex than typhon 230a. He is different from the natural philosophers because the method that he usesdiscourse, dialogue, conversationis public and communal. Pdf plato phaedrus download ebook full pdf download get.
Socrates is different from the sophists because he thinks there is a truth to be discovered. Phaedrus has been influenced by the sophistic view of rhetoric, which states that persuasion trumps truth in the art of rhetoric. Phaedrus by plato pdf free download ebook books library. One of the areas of interest for many readers happens to be speech as such, discussed near the end of the dialogue. The rhetoric of morality and philosophy, one of the most groundbreaking works of twentiethcentury platonic studies, is now back in print for a new generation of students and scholars to discover. Ferrari 1987 says that it is the human and especially the philosophical soulthat is, general truths about ones human naturebut, also, what it is to live the. According to some scholars, his philosophical skills made him far better able than xenophon was to understand socrates and therefore more valuable a source of information about him. You may also be interested in juans talk on this section of the phaedrus at our friday night meeting 7232010, on the occasion of the balboas first release of this translation.
As the contest takes an unexpected turn, socrates produces what is. And indeed, nature is more akin to the lower part of the soul. The symposium, one of plato s middleperiod dialogues, is generally considered to have been composed around 385380 b. I come from lysias the son of cephalus, and i am going to take a walk outside the wall, for i have been sitting with him the whole. I doubt that i can give the reader an adequate sense of mary p. Phaedrus outlines his position on the concept of love and relationships in ancient athens. Socrates argues as to whether the lover or the beloved is the. It has been said that, after the bible, platos dialogues are the most influential books in western culture. I was with lysias, the son of cephalus,l socrates, and i am. Each of the speeches approaches love in a different way. A new interpretation of plato s socratic dialogues by charles h. Reflections on platos symposium, phaedrus, and lysis. The phaedrus lies at the heart of plato s work, and thetopics it discusses are central to his thought.
Socrates and plato have leftmany marks upon our culture, and the strongest one perhaps is the stature theygave to philosophy by contrasting it with other forms of thought and speech. The discussion of moral and philosophical problems between two or more characters in a dialogue is an illustration of one version of the socratic method. After socrates concludes his great speech, the dialogue transitions to a discussion of rhetoric and writing. Eros in platos phaedrus and the shape of greek rhetoric harvey yunis f or plato, rhetoric was not a morally neutral set of skills in language and speaking, but part and parcel of the entire set of conventional ethical and political values that needed to be uprooted and replaced with better ones. Seen from one angle it consists of a speech by the rhetorician lysias and two by socrates, the. The phaedrus takes place in a beautiful pastoral landscape, and is a dialogue between socrates and phaedrus discussing the nature of eros and the soul. Socrates challenges this argument by demonstrating the harmful influences of speaking without knowing the.
Pdf on jun 22, 2001, ricardo henriquez and others published plato on love. Jul 03, 2016 platos argument in phaedrus is quite complex, and its important to distinguish between the real dialogue and aschenbachs imagination of it. Euthyphro is surprised to meet socrates near the kingarchons court, for socrates is not the kind of man to have business with courts of justice. Aug 25, 2005 phaedrus is widely recognized as one of platos most profound and beautiful works. Eros in platos phaedrus and the shape of greek rhetoric harvey yunis f. A comprehensive overview of my understanding of platos dialogues titled plato the philosopher. The sophists, itinerant teachers of rhetoric, claimed to be able to impart a comprehensive body of knowledgea claim which plato and socrates noticeably resist throughout plato s dialogues, including in phaedrus, where socrates claims more than once to know nothing.
As with other dialogues by plato, the characters are historical, but the conversation is not. Pdf plato phaedrus download ebook full pdf download. Inthe phaedrus, however, plato does notfeel the need to resist other forms of culture but rather is ready toassimilate them. Pdf plato phaedrus notes english language commentary on. But this short dialogue between the two speeches also ends on two items that find a counterpart at the very end of the dialogue. In the famous symposium and phaedrus, written when socrates was still alive, we find the origin and meaning of love. Though the platonicsocratic ideal is more specialized in its focus on creating discourse, nonetheless, like the sophistic ideal, it sought a union of verbal skills with learning and. In the years following socrates death, a number of his former associates wrote short dialogues in which socrates was the principal interlocutor. In reading this excerpt from the phaedrus, which reports a dialogue between socrates and phaedrus, crucial to your understanding of what bothers socrates about writing is. The dialogue contains some of plato s most significant and famous discussions of major political themes, and focuses dramatically and with unrivaled intensity on socrates as a political thinker and actor. Socrates uses love as a metaphor for rhetoric by categorizing the differences between love and lust, as well as the differences between a philosopher who pursues divine truth, and a poet who forgoes truth for ostentations.
The phaedrus written by plato, is a dialogue between platos protagonist, socrates, and phaedrus, an interlocutor in several dialogues. Plato, the phaedrus a dialogue between socrates and phaedrus written down by the pupil of socrates, plato, in approximately 370 bc. The phaedrus was presumably composed around 370 bce, about the same time as platos republic and symposium. The phaedrus was presumably composed around 370 bc, around the same time as platos republic and symposium. Socrates debates with the sophist seeking the true definition of rhetoric, attempting to pinpoint the essence of rhetoric and unveil the flaws. Its legacy has been far reaching, inspiring religion and mysticism, to visions of art, the good, and the beautiful. Handout supplied to my students as we work through plato s symposium, focused particularly on the content in the sixth speech, given by socrates narrating earlier dialogues with diotima. Consider, for example, the transition that occurs after socrates second speech. You can listen to the guys disentangle it in our latest podcast here or become a pel citizen to listen to the entire thing at once. Rhetoric is the art of ruling the minds of men plato. Socrates once had with his friend phaedrus, while out on a walk in the country outside of. The elaborate structure distances the reader from the philosophical ideas in platos work.
Kahn d espite the fact that he perfected the form, plat0 did not invent the socratic dialogue. The phaedrus, to pilfer a phrase socrates himself uses in the same dialogue, is a beast more complex than typhon 230a. In its treatment of the topicsof the soul, the ideas and love, it is closely tied to the other dialogues ofplato s middle period, the phaedo,the symposium, and the republic. The dialogue begins with a meeting between phaedrusand socrates. As regards the parallels, between lysias and socrates on the one hand, between lysias and isocrates on the other hand, they invite us to two more parallels. In this volume, distinguished classicist seth benardete interprets and pairs two important platonic dialogues, the gorgias and the phaedrus, illuminating socrates notion of rhetoric and platos. Socrates explains that he is under indictment by one meletus for corrupting the young and for not believing in the gods in whom the city believes. The dialogue is constructed as a report of several speeches about love that were presented at a dinner party given by the playwright agathon on the occasion of his winning first prize in a. While the republic may be more famous, symposium is the most graphic, intense, and dramatic of the dialogues. There is not much in the other dialogues which can be compared with the apology. Plato, from the phaedrus a dialogue between socrates and phaedrus written down by plato, the pupil of socrates, in approximately 370 bc. How platos phaedrus influenced thomas manns death in venice.
It should be noted that phaedrus is plato s only dialogue that shows socrates outside the city of athens, out in the country. Presented as a series of probing conversations between socrates and his students and fellow citizens, they form a magnificent dialectical quest that examines enduring political, ethical, metaphysical, and epistemological issues. Plato, from the phaedrus a dialogue between socrates and. We find socrates with phaedrus, a young man for whom he has a certain kind of erotic inclination. In phaedrus, plato records the conversation of love and rhetoric between socrates and phaedrus. There is something definite that he wants to talk about with gorgias, and he blames his late arrival on his companion chaerephon. The apology not a dialogue, crito, euthyphro, and the unforgettable phaedo relate the trial and death of socrates and propound the immortality of the soul. Plato and the socratic dialogue the philosophical use of a literary form. The dialogue depicts a conversation between socrates and a small group of sophists and other guests at a dinner gathering.
Plato, unlike xenophon, is generally regarded as a philosopher of the highest order of originality and depth. Although ostensibly about the topic of love, the discussion in the dialogue revolves around the art of. Lysias speech read by phaedrus is between a lover and his beloved. Phaedo, who is the narrator of the dialogue to echecrates of phlius. Phaedrus is widely recognized as one of platos most profound and beautiful works.
The result is a unified interpretation of all of the dialogues down to the republic and the phaedrus. The two encounter each other the morning after phaedrus has heard lysias, a prominent athenian and famous orator, give a. Socrates meets phaedrus, who has just come from a performance by lysias, a wellknown orator, and socrates agrees to accompany him on a walk outside the walls of athens. What is the relationship between love eros and rhetoric in the phaedrus. Socrates reveals it to be a kind of divine madness that can allow our souls to grow wings and soar to their greatest heights. An analysis of his doctrine on love in the symposium and phaedrus introduction love is a human fact, something that happens to humans. I come from lysias the son of cephalus, and i am going to take a walk outside the wall, for i have been sitting with him the whole morning. My dear phaedrus, whence come you, and whither are you going.
The text which has been mostly followed in this translation of plato is the latest 8vo. How does the dialogue formally link the two themes. The real question is whether the murdered man has been justly slain. To vindicate the pursuit of philosophy, in the meaning given to that word by socrates and plato, as the true culture of the soul.
An analysis of his doctrine on love in the symposium and phaedrus find, read and cite all the research you need on. The contrary view is that platos originality and vision as a. The phaedrus is closely connected with the symposium, and may be regarded either as introducing or following it. Although ostensibly about the topic of love, the discussion in the dialogue revolves. As in the symposium, multiple speeches are given on eros, and socrates final speech provides the corrected teaching of platonic love. The problem of love serves as the provocation for the speeches, the content of the speeches and the reflection upon speech as a whole. They are short and entertaining and fairly accessible, even to readers. If you compare the phaedrus with a text like the poetics by plato s student aristotle, plato s dialogue may seem to wander from topic to topic, although the issues socrates and phaedrus discuss are connected conceptually, as the guide will indicate. Platos symposium is one of the most iconic works of literature in the western tradition. Socrates is renowned for his dialectic approach to knowledge often referred to as the socratic method, which involves posing questions that encourage others to think deeply about what they care about and articulate their ideas. Platos brilliant dialogues, written in the fourth century b.
They create temporal distance and suggest the fictional nature of the dialogues. The difference is partially due to the genre of these worksaristotle s treatise lays out its. It takes the form of a dialogue between socrates and phaedrus and its ostensible subject is love, especially homoerotic love. The major themes of the phaedrus are introduced in these opening scenes of the dialogue. In this dissertation, i offer an interpretation of socrates conception of erotic love.
Platophaedrus wikibooks, open books for an open world. In contrast phaedrus is much simpler in structure, situated outside on the road and a conversation between two players, socrates and phaedrus. Like symposium the conditions for dialectical enquiry are made explicit at the beginning of each dialogue and the rules of engagement firmly set for challenging any stated views within the safe confines. Recites a conversation between phaedrus and socrates on a walk outside of town. Reason and rhetoric in platos phaedrus curve carleton. I still do not know why the zen motorcyclist identified with phaedrus. The symposium is about love, eros more specifically. Suggested answer this is perhaps the most difficult of all questions concerning the phaedrus.
The general setting is that of a situation between. Plato, the phaedrus a dialogue between socrates and. These benefits are given through implanting the sense of hono ur. Users guide pdf file of about 150 pages plus about 50 pages of appendixes 1. Socrates says he wants to know himself only once in the extant. In contrast with therepublic, where polemarchus must playfully compel socrates to join the group whose leisurely discussion will investigate justice, the discussion here arises from socrates own initiative. Symposium by plato introductory dialogue and the speech of.
Phaedrus study guide from litcharts the creators of sparknotes. Adding even more distance between the reader and the events that take place during the symposium, plato has apollodorus preface his account of the party with the. But our fascination does not extend equally to each of the many topics brought up in this dialogue. To these two doubtful writings of plato i have added the first alcibiades, which, of all the disputed dialogues of plato, has the greatest merit, and is somewhat longer than any of them, though not verified by the testimony of aristotle, and in many respects at variance with the symposium in the description of the relations of socrates and. Phaedrus is widely recognized as one of plato s most profound and beautiful works. Pederasty and power in platos mythological dialogues. Socrates in plato s dialogue the phaedrus, however, is itself not unlike the ideal sought by the sophists in general, isocrates in particular.